Sister in law

Posted by Aulelei (587 days ago)

Okay truth be told we'are not married (yet) but would like your opinion of whether you think i am being pathetic to still hold a grudge against my partners sister. Long story so here goes...

last year when we were living in another country, my partner went through a really bad phase - he was out of work, which for him being a proud man was devastating . He tried to find a job but had no success. It was hellish for me watching his self esteem plummet, and the job rejections just kept adding to his depressions. Anyways, some 4 months later of living just on my salary, we made a plan to move to Melbourne where is 'close' sister stayed. She was encouraging of the idea, and even his mum was in on it... basically we were going for a new start, and i was happy because my partner started to come out of his funk.

I have never met her but, he waxed lyrical about her and talked of how 'close' they were growing up bla bla bla. We talked about how we would stay with his sister for no more than 3 weeks and then use our savings to get our own place. Every one in his family knew we were planning to go... i was excited too and happy to start out fresh... and then 1 month before we were to fly out, the Melbourne sister rang his other sister and told her that we could not stay with her as her husband had forbidden it. His reason? For all he knew, my partner was coming there to loaf around on the couch all day and eat them out of house and home. He did not want an unemployed bum in his house. I was so upset, but it paled in comparison to how my partner felt. He was humiliated and hurt and thats what really got me. It was the first time i had actually seen him bawl (he's not the crying kind) and from that day on, i wrote her off the list and told him as far as i was concerned, he didnt have a sister in Melbourne. Anyways, as it turned out my company didnt accept my resignation and have posted me in two offices before my final destination here in HK. He forgave her last year but i just refuse, i just cant shake it off. And he tells me tonight that his Melbourne sister is thinking of planning a visit out to HK to stay with us? He knows how i feel about her and says its up to me, but he hopes that one day i will be able to move on and forgive her... if not for her, then for him. but thats the thing, i dont hate her for what she did to me. I hate her for what she did to her own brother and i cant ever forgive her for it. And the fact that she didnt stick up for him with her husband, nor tell my partner to his face that he couldnt come and stay makes me all the more pissd off. I am a 'family first' kind of person and cant understand it at all. If it was my brother and my partner said that, i would kick my partner out without batting an eyelid.
Its been a year now... is it time for me to build a bridge over it? what would you guys do?

(I am based in Hong Kong)

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Posted by Nana (587 days ago)

I would say NO to her to.. fair enough..

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by KAT8 (587 days ago)

If your partner has forgiven her, then I think you should as well. Remember blood is thicker than water and you don't really know what her relationship with her busband is like.

I know you feel hurt the way she treated her brother but if he can move on, so should you.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by cara (587 days ago)

if family is what you put first, then maybe that is what your future hubby is doing by forgiving his spineless sister.

you don't have to forgive her, or even like her. you need to be civil to her and possibly even pleasant. you may find that she is actually a very nice person, but in her house the hubby rules the roost.

if you can't get past it but your man has, then what you are actually doing is creating a very uncomfortable situation for him. when you do tie the knot will you invite her? or exclude her?

it will be difficult, but you have a chance to be a bigger person than she is.

when she comes you could say, "gee, it was a shame that things weren't able to work out, we had been all prepared to go to oz... we were disappointed, to say the least" and leave it at that. that puts the ball into her court to try to explain things to you and to defend herself.

good luck!

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Jan Lul (587 days ago)

pls be reminded that it was her husband who refused to let u stay with them, not the 'ugly sister'. maybe their marriage is not that good, or maybe the husband has 'problems' of some sort. who knows eh ? in most families, I think, there are issues: it's best to not let them develop and cause irrepairable harm. just let it be.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Meiguoren (587 days ago)

I personally would do my best to put it behind me as a way of supporting my partner. First, the offense was against your partner, so if he is willing to forgive his sister then you should do your best to follow his lead. I think in the long term, the relationship is probably more important to him than the offense. But even if the relationship is destined to go down the tubes, it needs to be his decision as to when to give up on it. (If it happens over and over and you notice he's the family dishrag or scapegoat, then I'd think differently, but once is not enough to convince me of that pattern.) Second, though, I personally see the "evil" person as being the M. sister's husband. It's possible the Melbourne sister could have been put in a terrible, awkward position by her a.h. husband. You say she should have stuck up for her brother, but you don't really know all the facts -- perhaps she tried her best and the dude could have been over the top unreasonable, perhaps she also bawled over her husband's stance, maybe it even affected their marriage. (You mention that the sister is wanting to come to HK, you don't say that brother in law wants to come!) Anyway, even if you follow "three strikes you're out," there haven't quite been three strikes here. I'd give it a go. On the other hand, there's no need to completely ignore the past. Now that you know you can't rely on her, don't ever make the same mistake twice, and now he will have knowledge to keep a bit of emotional distance there in the future. As far as the sister's husband, I'd have to think long and hard about that one -- my inclination would be to think that HE would not be welcome again, and not only that but I hope he doesn't have the nerve to ask to come "freeload" for a nice visit in HK.

(I am based in Guangzhou)

Posted by Meiguoren (587 days ago)

PS, on the other hand, regarding the Melbourne brother in law, the same advice could be given, for all involved to tolerate him for the sake of the brother and sister who love each other.

(I am based in Guangzhou)

Posted by flashback (586 days ago)

Yes... I think you're blaming the wrong person here, and the wrong issue.

The sister in law doesn't have a duty first to your happiness, but to her own, and her own marriage. Her husband may or may not have been unreasonable, but she has to take into account his feelings regarding this before inviting anyone into her home.

The problem seems to have been that she very generously responded to your partner out of her own feelings, and then found out later that her husband could not tolerate the situation for whatever reason. Give the woman credit for having the immeditate feelings she did. She called the other sister for advice, because she was in a quandry over it, and it seems reached the conclusion that it just wouldn't work.

It seems that her decision to come to Hong Kong probably independently is designed to try to mend the relationship with her much loved brother, not mooch off of you and get a free trip.

I would say the woman is doing her best to accommodate everyone, but is stuck in the middle. Until you have actually met her, you won't know the full situation.

I wouldn't be making any snide or other remarks to her about the prior situation. Let her raise the subject, and make her explanations and re-build the relationship with her brother.

Sometimes our marriages/partners develop in a way that is surprising to us. The first option ought not to be pull it all apart.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by freddy (586 days ago)

I have an American friend who once told me to "suck it up" for the greater good in a difficult social situation. Strange phrase but it worked and maybe that is what you need to do here with his Sister and more so her husband, he may have his reasons for such an attitude. I hope your partner has regained his employment/self esteem and is flourishing. It would be great if you let the husband quietly see how well your partner is doing and how wrong his atttitude was. He may feel guilty and even apologise for his lack of support earlier.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by StarryStarryOne (586 days ago)

It doesn't look like you'll have many options in the yers to come. Therefore, if I were you, I would play the nice sister in-law, let them stay with us, be nice to them, and make them feel guilty and embarrassed.
It's not to complicate things, because the anger isn't making you any happier when you're being around them, even if you can't get over it, just pretend you are, play your part well so no one can ever complain in the future, given you could well be part of the family sooner or later.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by tia (586 days ago)

Can you suggest that they stay at a hotel but still see them when they come to town? This might make it a bit easier on you to adjust to her being here.

I agree that the problem seems to be more his sister's husband than her...although she could have stood up to her husband.

Somewhere along the way, you will have to make peace if you want to have a decent relationship with her. It's hard, I know, to forgive such a slight, but you'll have to try.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by naimakiddo (586 days ago)

Not exactly nice to hold a grudge or if you agree to let them stay in your place and expecting for an apology either.

I think tia's suggestion would be fine.

(I am based in Guangzhou)

Posted by raincatcher (586 days ago)

But you never know what happened when Aulelei's partner was upset about his own sister rejecting him. Aulelei probably had suffered a lot (and taken a lot of her partner's sh*t)?

(I am based in Unspecified)

Posted by Aulelei (586 days ago)

hey all, thanks for your perspectives... looks like the overwhelimg majority is for me to 'suck it up' and get along with her, which i guess is what i know i should do :)

raincatcher - you've hit a nerve here cos what really really gets my goat is that for the 4 months or so that he had the blues, i had to be the strong one for both of us, and not just financially... it was really exhausting trying to remain positive and believing everything was not so bad, even though i had no idea how things were going to turn out for us. And the only time things picked up and i felt him coming out of it was when we both planned to go. And then for her to turn around and crap on that... i was devastated cos i had to pick up the pieces all over again but this time it was worse, cos i was hurt too. I admit she broke my heart because i am not a person who depends on others for help easily. It was the first time i had been in a situation where we both asked for help from his family, and we got nothing but heartache.

I just wish that she had had the balls to tell us directly instead of telling everyone else first and having them tell us. The worst part is that she knows her husband better than us, so she must have told him when we first started planning. And if so, he would have told her no from the start... if that was the case, why did she wait so long to tell us? I honestly believe she didnt think we were serious, until it was too late.

But thanks guys, i know its in the best interests to try and have some kind of relationship with her. Even if it revolves around me being fake to her (thanks StarryOne :))

Obviously my partner is a lot more forgiving than me, but the thought of meeting her makes me soooo angry, and makes me remember the times i held my bf while he bawled in humiliation and disbelief. I hated her guts then and nothing has happened to make me change that feeling.

Its true she has an over bearing husband who rules the roost. And yes she has to live out her own happiness before my own - i am okay with that. But why now? Where was the caring sister before we got transferred to Hong Kong?

flashback - i appreciate your comments about just moving on and not letting her know she affected us, and that we have moved onto better things... but i think for me to truly have a relationship with her i feel i have to take let her know exactly how she made us feel.

Cara - i think i will follow what you say and put the ball back in her court. I need to see her reaction to it to see if i can really get over it.

And Meiguoren, even if i can move on with the sister, her husband is dead to me. As far as i know its just the sister coming. the moment i find out HE is coming, its straight to the hotel for both of them.

Is it wrong to want her to really know how upset she got the both of us? I just dont want her to think that now that her and my partner are talking again, that everything just gets swept under the rug like it never happened.

I'm expecting an explanation, an apology and about the same amount of tears that she caused us... and then i might feel better about creating a friendship.

Or do you honestly think this is one i have to concede?

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by tia (585 days ago)

I don't think it's wrong to want some sort of an answer/explanation. You might not get it or it might not be what you want, but I think you have the right to ask.

If her hubby is that overbearing, then that is something to consider. She might be living her own version of a personal he!! having to live with someone like him.

It's hard when this happens. My husband is more forgiving than I am as well, even when the people who have hurt him are truly wretchedly awful and rotten. I don't forgive easily. You are well within your rights as his partner to say that they are not allowed in your home if they make you that upset. Perhaps if they offer an explanation, you'll be more willing.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by shrinkingV (585 days ago)

why do they have to stay with you? can't they afford a hotel? is your place big enough? if not, you are setting yourself for a very combustible situation with all that justified resentment inside you....

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Meiguoren (585 days ago)

I'll throw out an idea and see how people respond. My personal philosophy is that an apology is meaningless if the person doesn't acknowledge that they have caused wrong or hurt. (So, I think the apology, "I'm sorry IF x hurt you" is meaningless; in my book it has to be "I'm sorry THAT x hurt you.") The flip side to this is that some people cause hurt without ever realizing that they did it or how deep it was, so they don't understand the reaction of the person who was hurt. In order to really resolve the situation from the inside out, to make a meaningful apology, the offending person needs to understand what they have done, emotionally. So, what would you think of writing her a letter explaining in detail the way in which she hurt you. For instance, include in the letter: 1. BF really needed you. 2. You rejected him. 3. It really hurt him (and don't hold back here on describing how it hurt, his crying, the adding to his depression to have a full understanding that his family did not stand by him, and what it means for your future that you feel you can't rely on his family). 4. In addition to hurting him, this really hurt me, and it was insulting to both of us to have the insinuation that we were freeloaders (or whatever). 5. The offensiveness that you relied on this offer to stay with them, and then to have it communicated through a different sister, with the insinuation that it had been the subject of family gossip. Then, I would end the letter. Put the ball squarely in her court how to respond. You may get the tearful, full acknowledgment of regret and pain on her part that would let you know she really apologizes, or you may get the unsatisfying response, "I'm sorry if you have a problem." But after you see her response, then you can decide whether she would be welcome in HK and to what degree. The other thing is that this letter is an expression of your feelings and not your BF, which I think is legitimate. You are two separate people and she's going to have to learn to deal with you and consider you, as well as him. So, what do others think about this idea?

(I am based in Guangzhou)

Posted by justin credulous (585 days ago)

Why do you feel YOU deserve an apology? She is not your sister. As much as she hurt the man you love...remember she was loving him for the majority of his life before you came along. The bond between siblings is fantastic when its a strong one...I've met friends who barely communicate with their siblings and say stuff like "we were never really that close" or "we are nothing alike". Me? My brother is my best friend! We have pulled each other through financial and emotional crises' more times than we can remember and we will continue to do so till the day we die. If a partner in my life felt some need to cut me off from my brother I would look at that as unnecessary jealousy or simply that maybe I was with the wrong person...coz my brother is pretty cool even if he is a few sandwiches short of a picnic. Family is family, aint nothing going to come between us. :o)

I know you feel you want her to know how what she did, basically not standing up for your man, hurt not just him but hurt YOU too. You are saying you cant forgive her for hurting him...but in reality, the truth is, she hurt you by doing so. YOU are hurt and you feel you cant forgive her without an apology.

You have to get over that. You never know, your bf and her have probably talked it to death already, e-mailed long apologies, skype'd late into the night and cried...you dont know. KAT8 is right, sorry but blood is thicker than water. If you feel she wasnt supportive enough to stick up to her ogre husband for your bf...you need to be the bigger person and be the supportive partner and accept his beloved/favorite sister into your house, heart and life with open arms.

Focus on the big picture here and get over the the small issues you cant seem to let go of. Whats done is done. For all you know she has a really controlling husband and as much as it would have pained her to not have your husband and you there, her husband was breathing a huge sigh of relief to be "rid of that bum" as he put it. His words...not hers. What is it with women about always thinking its another womans fault?

To be honest though...her husband has every right to not want a jobless guy spongeing off him...your bf may be a wonderful guy who works hard and earns a good wage...but maybe his brother in law has financial woes of his own and doesnt need the added stress?

Empathy...not just one or two people were affected by this. You have been tough for him, supported him...you are a good partner. Just dont make it out like you are owed anything for that, just be grateful that it all worked out no matter what. Life is full of these little bumps, you scrape your knee but you pick yourself back up...dont bother kicking or trying to flatten that bump when you get back up...you'll only hurt your toes!

Good luck! Be the bigger person, let go your misplaced anger, love unconditionally and you will see everything turn out right. I know you can do it.

(I am based in Iraq)

Posted by HKBlue (585 days ago)

I would find out a bit more about the "family from hell" visiting you. He doesn't sound like a nice character(family or not). I would'nt want someone of that calibre staying with me for any amount of time. And personally I would let him know why, but that's because I am not so nice as you folks here.
Get a nice recommendation for a hotel in the heart of Wanchai, just to spice up their marriage.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by flashback (585 days ago)

Planning to stay with a family member for a holiday, is a very different proposition from arriving from another country without a job and in depression. As hard as it may seem to you Aulelei, not too many people would relish the idea of having a relative and someone they didn't know arrive in their home under those uncertain circumstances. Some would refuse to let the situation happen in the first place in case it just became an awful responsibility.

Let's believe you and think your partner was no candidate for that in your eyes. However, one doesn't need much imagination to think of situations like this that others have been in, with relatives, for whatever reason, stuck with them for a while.

Some people can't even stand family or house guests for 3 days... three weeks could have been what you planned, but it could well have stretched longer and in the brother-in-law's eyes, he probably wondered why it had to be his family that had to take up the slack when there are plenty of alternatives in life, especially Australia.

Short of being destitute, I wouldn't go to live with any of my family. Heck, I don't even stay with them when I am on holidays, and they are all very nice... it's just we all need our space and I respect that.

Most Australians do take a tougher stance on things like this than say people in this neck of the world.

They probably feel they did you a favour encouraging you and your husband to stand on your own two feet and work it out eventually. It's a tough stand, but it did work out in the end.

People set different limits on what they can and can't deal with. You know what their limits are. You are within your rights to announce your own. If you can't bear to have them in your house, then don't. However, I think you have not considered this situation from anyone else's perspective but your partner's and your own. There is another view here. I second everything JC has said on this one.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by helenahk (584 days ago)

I understand why it's a huge imposition to ask someone to take you in indefinitely; I also understand Aulelie's point, they should have said no eariler and communicated this directly.

I actually think, given this background, it's audacious for the in-laws to ask to stay with her. It's one thing to say we are coming and can we get together sometime, it's another to ask to stay with them (to save $$$?). It's an imposition on their part this time.

I totally get Aulelei's resentment at this and if I were her, I wouldn't go out of my way to play host. Rather, I would suggest a hotel nearby, take them out for a meal or two, and get to know them during this visit.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Aulelei (584 days ago)

" Life is full of these little bumps, you scrape your knee but you pick yourself back up...dont bother kicking or trying to flatten that bump when you get back up...you'll only hurt your toes!"

Hey JC - Love the quote above.. and yeah you're right! In fact thats the approach my partner has, he looks at her rejection as a blessing in disguise. While i agree of course, there's just the little niggly feelign that still remains. But you are right - i have to be the bigger person in all this :) thanks for having faith.

Meiguoren, i agree its pointless to have an apology without admitting the hurt. I think i would still bring it up with her, but not from a 'you're a bitch for saying no' point of view... but rather a, 'its a shame our move didnt work out' kinda way. See how she takes that. Part of me would still like some kind of acknowledge or a squirm at least to let me know she has a heart under there... if i dont get it, i will be disappointed but will try not to dwell on it any longer.

helenahk - yeah i think its pretty audacious too, but i will try and be the bigger person. If she comes on her own, she can stay with us but im not gonna play hostess to her. That will be my partner's job... but maybe the silver lining will be that i actually do get a friendship out of it with her. Time let go of the cold pricklies and open myself to warm fuzzies... right? haha

Thanks guys and gals for your comments, its really helped me to see the 'bigger picture'. Will keep you posted how it turns out. Either you'll hear it from me here on the website, or the front page of the news ha ha ... im kidding guys! :p

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Pupalicious (583 days ago)

I think.... well what I was first going to put was, it's his sister let him deal with it and best not to get involved. But you quit your job because she invited you to go stay there, and you were almost both out of work because her husband is a dick.

I say you find a nice hotel for her, just to be civil.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by Meems (583 days ago)

His sister has a problem, she was too direct and didn't consider her own brother's feelings. Words can be toned down to avoid bad air, but she decided to rub salt in his wounds and drumed it down his throat. If you husband has forgiven, the best to let it go. If you still feel a bit bitter, then invite the sister and hubby round and spit in their dinner secretly. You will feel better afterwards, and smile sweetly.

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by wired (583 days ago)

Meems, you sound like a 12yr old having a tantrum!

(I am based in Hong Kong)

Posted by justin credulous (582 days ago)

Lol, I was curious how the sister put salt in his wounds or drumed it down his throat, apppears it was the husband who said no.

>Auleilei - honestly girl, dont go with the "I would like an apology" or "See her squirm" even a little...its not a good thing. These negative emotions never do you any good. All these feelings...its not because of her or her husband, its in your mind...analyze what and where these feelings come from (maybe a deep rooted fear of rejection) and just let them go. You can only feel compassion if you give up this dulaistic way of thinking you'll feel a lot more settled, right now, emotionally you are feeling extremes. "Yes maybe I can be her friend" or "No, I want to see her squirm, just a little".

Even if she squirmed, it wouldnt be enough, it would leave you feeling empty. And if you crave her friendship and dont get it, that too will leave you feeling empty and unhappy. Oki? Just be mindful of your thoughts and do the right thing...dont let your feelings push you to do things that will only create a bigger karmic backlash.

(I am based in Iraq)